To-The-Trade Episode Summary
This episode of the To-The-Trade interior design podcast features a rich, honest conversation between host Laurie Laizure and Los Angeles designer Shannon Ggem, who was recently named a Kitchen Design Innovator of the Year. Shannon shares how her Massachusetts roots and life in the Malibu Mountains have shaped her signature mix of New England antiques, vintage finds, and relaxed California coastal style. She works nationwide, often in the Northeast, and loves giving new builds the feeling of age and character by weaving in “story” pieces and small visual tricks that make homes feel layered and lived in.
From there, Shannon introduces her wellness-focused approach, which she calls biophilic practices and others might call dopamine design. She sees interiors as a way to reconnect clients with both nature and the real humans who design and build their furniture, lighting, and finishes. Laurie and Shannon talk about brands with meaningful origin stories and resilient cultures, and how sharing those stories empowers designers to sell with integrity rather than pressure.
The heart of the episode is empathy in the business of interior design. Shannon identifies as highly empathic, and Laurie notes that many design pros are similar, practically walking around with their hearts outside their bodies. Shannon explains how easily empathic designers can over-identify with clients, try to save them from every uncomfortable feeling, and quietly absorb the cost with unpaid time and energy. To protect everyone involved, she leans on precise language and structure. She tells clients from day one that they cannot hurt her feelings with honest feedback, and she uses ranking scales with couples to see where a compromise on a pillow fabric is acceptable and where a non-negotiable preference exists.
Laurie raises a big tension point, client fear. She shares that many homeowners are secretly afraid of designers, worried they will be sold things they do not want or talked into a home that does not reflect who they are. Shannon links that fear to retail marketing, where large chains portray designers as greedy middle layers while quietly pouring money into advertising and cutting corners on construction. Together, they unpack why designers need to educate clients on the real cost of quality sofas, lighting, and rugs, and how that education itself is a significant act of empathy.
Pricing strategies for designers come up throughout the discussion. Laurie describes community debates around hourly rates and transparency, and Shannon calls out two classic traps: overdelivering on time and shaving hours because a task “took too long.” She shares stories about showing a client 167 professionally filtered sconces before the client finally realized the limits of endless browsing, and about clients who chase dupes, marketplace bargains, and antique rugs online, only to end up with low-quality pieces or pest problems. These examples underscore why clients are paying for a professional filter in a noisy, algorithm-driven market.
The conversation widens to empathy across the entire design ecosystem. Shannon discusses her responsibility to screen vendors on wellness, safety, and labor practices, since she specifies many sofas and case goods each year. Laurie adds context about brands struggling under tariffs and shifting demand, and Shannon suggests simple, human gestures like sending install photos to reps and factories to say thank you. They also explore empathy for trades and construction teams, encouraging designers to stay curious, treat contractors as experts in their field, and ask about unexpected site decisions rather than assume incompetence.
To help designers handle emotionally charged conversations, Laurie references Brene Brown’s “rumble” tools, including phrases like “the story I am telling myself is” or asking for the most generous interpretation of what happened. Shannon reminds listeners that clients are often grieving an old kitchen or stretching into a new identity, so discomfort is part of the journey and not always a sign that the designer failed.
They close with practical interior designer tips: clean up your back-end processes, communicate fees and realistic project budgets early, audit recent jobs so you can share real numbers on kitchens and complete room projects, and stop absorbing costs that belong to the project. When designers combine empathy with firm boundaries, clear client communication, and sustainable pricing, they protect their creativity and deliver deeply human, long-lasting results.
00:00 – 04:30, Meet Shannon Ggem
, Background, bi-coastal practice, and kitchen design accolades.
04:30 – 10:00, Signature Style and Wellness Focus
Antiques, biophilic or dopamine design, and creating homes with character.
10:00 – 16:30, Empathy and Client Decision Tools
Reading clients, inviting honest feedback, and using ranking systems for couples.
16:30 – 24:00, Client Fear, Pricing, and Designer Myths
Why clients are nervous about designers and how to talk budgets and value.
24:00 – 32:00, Overdelivery, Dupes, and the 167 Sconces Story
Time traps, algorithm overwhelm, and the real cost of low-quality choices.
32:00 – 40:30, Quality, Wellness, and Ethical Sourcing
: Vetting factories, refusing low-quality products, and educating clients on actual costs.
40:30 – 48:00, Empathy for Vendors and Trades
Partnering with reps, factories, and contractors as part of the design ecosystem.
48:00 – 57:00, Boundaries and Hard Conversations
Scripts for tough talks, protecting your energy, and sustainable empathy in design.